tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN February 6, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am PST
will ferrell strolling through a field in slow motion. while trumpets blair. then it cuts away. just the kind of smooth elixir we need in these trying, bird flipin' times. "outfront" tonight, massacres in syria, riots and arrests of americans in egypt and america getting tougher on iran. the growing threat to america in the middle east tonight. and the husband of a missing woman blows himself up along with his children. family members "outfront" tonight. and the president defending the use of super pac money. his reasons is "outfront" now. good evening. i'm erin burnett. and "outfront" tonight, the middle east on the verge. countries across the region from
iran to libya on high alert reacting to the highest tension there in decades and all eyes are on the united states. what will america do? the big story tonight is a massacre in syria. the death toll mounting tonight as the government cracks down on protesters, demanding president bashar al assad step down. 74 people died today, many in the western city of homs. >> we're not animals. we're human beings. we're asking for help. asking for your help. if you don't help, they will kill millions. no one will find out about us. >> right now, the united states has been withdrawing, shutting down its embassy today. a source who has spent a lot of time with al assad says the situation is deteriorating to a blood bath and saying america's military may need to step in. meanwhile, the regime hoping turmoil in other part of the renal will buy it time.
that is, of course, in syrian ally iran. the united states slapped more sanctions on iran today freezing all assets in iranian banks in the united states. a former cia agent and member of the revolutionary guard spoke to "outfront" today and said that iran has about 1,000 ballistic missiles and that china is now selling ian intercontinental ballistic technology, which will enable iran for the first time to strike america directly from tehran tehran. now, that is not close to happening at this time, but the point is, a few reports that they are aiming aggressively to accomplish it and tonight, there are reports from the middle east that iran is moving more of its uranium enrichment activity deep underground inside a mountain in anticipation of possible air strikes from the united states or israel. now, president obama's rhetoric got a little heavier. last night, he told nbc's matt lauer that he would do whatever it takes to stop iran from getting a bomb and he didn't say the united states would stop israel from striking iran.
>> i've been very clear that we're going to do everything we can to prevent iran from creating a nuclear weapon and creating an arms race, a nuclear arms race in a volatile region. i don't think israel has made a decision on what they need to do. >> as the iran situation escalates, at least rhetorically, there is a point coming where america will have serious decisions to make. there are also serious questions about an arab ally that america expected to always be on its side. 19 americans facing prosecution on charges of illegal foreign funding as part of an ongoing crackdown on nongovernmental organizations in cairo. we're going to show you some undercover video of a raid on an ngo. that's what you're looking at right here. egypt knows this isn't going under the radar because one of the defendants of the 19 i just told you about is the son of the united states transportation secretary ray lahood. and then there's libya, where america spent more than a billion dollars getting rid of
moammar gadhafi. right now, lawlessness still rules, rebels are looting and destroying homes. the interim government is trying to take control. the son of the dead dictator within weeks. the bottom line clear. america faces major choices in the middle east. now, i've reported from all these countries, but syria, truly this is an incredible moment we face. in an election year, rhetoric can get more heated. jamie rubin, great to have you with us. so, let me just start off by asking all these situations obviously are i guess worse is a fair word to use in an election year, but let's talk about iran specifically. what is happening here in your view? is this going to be something where you see some sort of strike? >> i think what's happening is what i would call the psychological warfare phase. we've known sanctions have a limbed chance of convincing iran
to stop its nuclear program. the israelis are increasingly worried that iran is getting to a point of no return. to the point -- could stop iran from developing a nuclear weapon, so the psychological warfare is the message being delivered to the united states, to journalists and throughout the world that israel is getting close to a decision to use force. this is a kind of psychological warfare. the the iranian doing the same thing. >> right. >> threatening to close down the straits of hormuz. so that's the phase we're in and the reason is because we're no closer despite some significant efforts by the administration to solving the problem. iran is no closer to being willing to give up its nuclear program. >> and as the president said last night, it wasn't just his usual witches. i want a diplomatic solution, but all options are on the table. yes, he said that, but he also said in a forceful tone, there was a tone, he put real emphasis
on that tone. the united states will not allow iran to get a nuclear weapon. i know some say that may not be possible to do unless you go to a full on war. >> well, i think the president used different forms of language last night than he's used in the past about using all means in the united states arsenal, but i don't think he really intended for my impression to ratchet up the rhetoric towards the use of force. on the contrary, i think the real message was that the israelis haven't decided to do so and my understanding is that behind the scenes, the u.s. is very, very, very worried that israel may choose to act and i find it very, very difficult to believe that president obama after making such big claims for his ending wars in iraq, ending a war in afghanistan, would want to launch what would make those wars really rather small potatoes.
a u.s.-iranian war has a real region-wide consequences and potentially real dangers for the united states. >> bob baer joins us now, and bob, let me get your sense on how this iranian situation goes from here. what sorts of undercover activities are going on there right now? and do you believe that the united states has a close to perfect sense of exactly where iran is on these icbms and on its nuclear program? >> there's a couple of things. iran is still aways from making a bomb. could be a year, could be two years, but it doesn't have the knowledge right now. it doesn't have enough enriched uranium. how fast they move and if they've set a date, we don't know. the intelligence is not that good. the israelis think the worst. we've got a certain space here and we have to make it now
before they move this entire thing under ground and we're completely blind. >> what about the role of china here? it's sort of incredible to me. china is a largest foreign owner of american debt. there's only so much some people think we can do to get them onboard. they have pulled back significantly from buying iranian oil. every report that you see and we were just talking about a former revolutionary guard official saying that it is china right now showing iran how to use and improve its missile technology. >> oh, i think absolutely the chinese see a vacuum in the middle east. we've left iraq. we're leaving afghanistan. it's a fluid situation. all across the middle east and the chinese are going to step in and see what they can get. they need oil and will need it for a long time. if we've left the middle east, they're going to fill that space. no question about it. and i think they're perfectly capable of helping the iranians
set up air defense network and they have been sending missile parts. i think one way or the other, they're going to buy the oil. i think one way or the other of course, moscow doesn't want -- likes the tension in the middle east because -- >> right. >> it boosts the price of oil. >> and that helps their biggest export. >> jamie rubin, let me ask you one more question about china and egypt. this is a country america has always counted on. we give them billions of dollars of aid a year. they've got these 19 americans they want to put on trial. one of them is the son of the american transportation secretary. can we not count on egypt anymore? >> it's clear we are having a tough time in the middle east in general. i think it is puzzling to me that the egyptians haven't realized the extreme danger they're putting their relationship with the united states. congress holds the ability to change policy on aid to egypt. the institutes that are at issue here, the so-called national
democratic institute, these are the people being investigated. they are directly tied to the leads of congress, so there's almost nothing the egyptians could do that would more stoke the anger and frustration of american legislatures and if this thing isn't resolved very, very quickly, there's going to be a real cutback of aid to egypt and a real change in the relationship. >> before we go, what will -- will we have some sort of resolution on the iranian issue this spring? obviously, i use resolution with quotes because i know there's a short-term and long-term resolution, but will there be one? >> i don't think so. there's too much tension in the middle east. it really is boiling. syria and lebanon are on the verge of a civil war. the iranians are going to get involved. iraq is still not settled. i just don't see some sort of grand bargain with iran and i think we really risk an escalation.
some unintended completely, but an escalation. >> bob baer, thank you very much. a warning to both sides and jamie rubin, always good to see you as well. we're talking about syria. the man who said it could be a blood bath and the next bosnia and that america could be involved is going to be our guest in a few moments. up next, the three things you did not know about tomorrow's gop contests. and let me promise you, candidates in drag are a part of it. and pundits are calling some super bowl ads political. but they're completing missing the point and a snowstorm crushing europe.
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so, in colorado today, mitt romney was feeling some heat. from rick santorum. here's what his campaign released this morning, quote, we need a president who's been strong and proving fiscal matters and had rick santorum voting numerous times to raise the d debt ceiling, so he has blood pressure part of the spending in congress. okay.
here is your chance -- >> governor romney is simply dead wrong on the most important issue of the day. and should not be the nominee of our party. >> but you see it. the battle between rick santorum and mitt romney appears to be the battle there. colorado one of three states voting tomorrow. minnesota and missouri or missouri as some say it, are headed to the polls. some interesting insight to share. so let us start with minnesota. land of garrison keillor. >> some things you might not know. first, mitt could lose minnesota. polls showing this is neck and neck, it's the tight fight, rick santorum spending a lot of time there. while mitt romney's been largely in colorado. the santorum camp's chief strategist told us there have been a lot of polls showing a competitive race romney seems to
be taking those seriously. that's why he's ramped up his attack machine. keep an eye on this could be a real photo finish. the big lead is in florida. that could stop tomorrow in minnesota. >> which do you want to do next? colorado or missouri. >> let's take a look at colorado. we're going to wait. this is a fascinating fight for the far right. rick santorum's trying to knock newt out. he's got some money in the back and has been running attack ads against newt gingrich. some pretty tough stuff. >> who are these three cap and trade loving bailout supporting soft on immigration big government mandating politicians? now you know. >> ouch. comparing -- comparing newt to nancy pelosi and president obama. >> nastiest campaign. >> he's using his cash to try to draw that strong contrast and show that rick santorum is the
real social conservative alternative to mitt romney. that's what a lot of these fights are object tomorrow night and the month of february. >> all right. there's one state tomorrow that i don't know really what's going on in this state. state is voting and in a few weeks, it's voting again. i don't know if it's ever going to count. that would be missouri. >> missouri. and look, i hate to break it to our friends in the show me state, missouri doesn't matter tomorrow night. no delegates are being awarded and, in fact, it's being called a beauty contest. and there's reason for that. just give people time to soak in that graphic. it's a beauty contest. >> this is a drag, not the drag races. >> yes. and newt gingrich not even on the ballot. in fact, the real contest in missouri has been kicked to march 17th. st. patrick's day. >> he might be grateful he's not on the ballot because his picture and face did not just appear on a nubile tiara ballgown lady.
>> the big secret about tomorrow in missouri contest, it does not matter. there are no delegates being given. the real fight's going to be march 17th. it could matter in terms of media. >> let's bring in david frum. i don't know, could you both see who looked best in their dress? >> i was averting my eyes. >> i want to know who won the talent and congeniality contest. >> you're lucky we didn't do the swim suit edition. >> there is a conversation about that. >> we had a conversation. couldn't decide who to put in a bathing suit, so decided to go equal opportunity. >> we know ron paul would call for world peace though. >> ramesh, what do you make of tomorrow? it seems smart. go after newt. try to knock out the guys like you, then go for the front-runner, mitt romney. do you think he can succeed?
>> i think so. the polls have been showing santorum seems to be enjoying a surge. in a certain pool, you have to wonder whether there's that much value in winning the right to get beaten one-on-one by mitt romney. but i think the more interesting question is going to be does romney start consolidating some support among voter groups in the gop that have been suspicion of him. >> david, you saw that on saturday night, nevada, mitt romney won every category and even when you take out the big benefit he got from the members of the church of ladder day saints, he still won in every category. very conservative tea party areas where he had struggled against newt gingrich and rick santorum in earlier states. >> yes, but i'm not sure how much of an accomplishment it is. getting bigger and bigger votes with smaller and smaller slices of the ideological electorate. one of my favorite political stories is told by karen hughes. she describes walking along the beach and seeing one of those advertising fliers that says, jill come back, i'm miserable
without you, jack. she said not good, jack. too much about you, not enough about me. republicans in these primaries are talking to themselves. they're denying realities of climate. they are focused on social issues. and the problem is that mitt romney's going to come out of these caucuses in danger of wearing the things that he was there. as you put out a second ago, does mitt romney want to be running as guy posed to raising the debt ceiling? >> to be honest, when you look at this issue objectively, it's a ridiculous thing for him to say. so, yeah. interesting point. >> but this is what happens when you pander in the primaries. the long contest the democrats had in 2008 was largely about who could appeal to the voters in the center of the spectrum. this is all about who can appeal to voters at the far right. and minnesota, republican parties fault lines are between
tim pawlenty and michele bachmann. so, this is really going to be an interesting fight. the caucus states, not necessarily the most representative way to select a president either. >> thanks very much to all of you. appreciate it. remember, barack obama voted against raising the debt ceiling. then became president and said yea. we're going to go to syria for a report from arwa damon and next, we take you to a number of places in america where they are ditching the dollar. how can you get back pain relief that lasts up to 16 hours? with thermacare heatwraps. thermacare works differently. it's the only wrap with patented heat cells that penetrate deep to relax, soothe, and unlock tight muscles. for up to 16 hours of relief, try thermacare.
77 years ago, the board game monopoly went on sale for the first time. we all grew up trying to accumulate monopoly money, park place and board walk. but these days, it's not just hasbro printing up its own bills. that's the number of local currencies being used in certain communities within the united states of america. yes, serious alternatives to the dollar. aly velshi, wow. this is pretty shocking. >> what it is, it's got more to do with communities trying to keep spending in the communities. there are these different communities. one is the berkshire, the bay bucks in seattle, washington. they're meant to say spend in the neighborhood. only good with retailers who accept it.
sometimes they trade at a discount. sometimes they trade at a little more than a dollar. sometimes bank accept them. it's a neat concept and it's spreading into people saying well, at least i know what this is worth. >> is this a real alternative to the dollar? >> not on a grand scale. it is on a local scale. we went into brooklyn to talk to a woman, an artist who's trying to start something called the brooklyn torch. let me just tell you how she explains it. >> business owners are entrepreneurs and this speaks to an entrepreneurial spirit of trying something new, just trying, you know, experimenting. if it work, it works. if it doesn't, move on to the next. but it's an idea that i think business owners respond to. hopefully, it does stimulate the local economy by getting people to come out to their local shops where the money is available to trade with. >> so, that's how it works. they sign up local businesses who say, yeah, i'll take the local currency, whatever it is. they do it because they know
people will spend it in the neighborhood. >> so, this is not something that -- >> i don't think it -- it doesn't spell the doom of the dollar. it's legal. we use all sorts of different ways of paying for things. there are some states giving some thought to whether they have a statewide currency. there seems to be overlap between people who think there should be statewide currencies and those who think the fed is a big conspiracy. i think this works in local areas, it works in tourist areas, in local communities. a neat idea, keeps business at home. don't know that it goes much bigger than that. but it is interesting. >> well, thank you very much. i remember in college late one saturday night, one of my suite mates using saltines to pay for pizza. >> it exists. it's an interesting idea. >> i think she ended up paying in cash the next day. thank you very much. still "outfront," the "outfront 5."
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government crackdown on protesters, right now, about 74. a source who has pent a lot of time with al assad tells us the situation is deteriorating to a blood bath. he says america's military may step in. also new reports that iran is moving more of its enrichment activity deep underground inside a mountain in anticipation of a u.s. or israeli air strike. number two. a los angeles elementary school at the center of two child abuse cases will be closed temporarily. it will be closed through wednesday to quote take a break. a school official told "outfront" a quarter of the students were absent today. last week, a teacher was arrested after police say they discovered he took bondage photos of more than two dozen children. and on friday, a fellow teacher was arrested for allegedly fondling two young girls.
the school board will vote tomorrow on whether to fire him. number three, the death toll is rising from an unrelenting winter storm battering europe. the ukraine appears to be the hardest hit. the breadbasket of europe. more than 120 deaths from temperatures below ten degrees and likely to stay there for the rest of the week. and likely to stay for the rest of the week. dozens dead in russia, romania and poland. the world's busiest airport is back open after canceling half its flights on sunday. affected 20,000 passengers. some i know just flew into heathrow this afternoon and say the airport is operating normal. netflix will soon have competition in the online streaming business. verizon and red box, it's a dvd kiosk company. sometimes you see it at walmart. they announced they are launching a subscription streaming service this year. they're being vague about the details, but we looked at the numbers. it's a rapidly growing service that's been dominated by
netflix. netflix says it can add 2 million more in the next few months. it has been 185 days since america lost its top credit rating. what are we going to get it back? we may be spending more on the military because violence in syria is reaching a breaking point. human rights groups report at least 74 civilians have been killed today. now, the u.s. state department announced it is pulling out all of its remaining staff because the syrian government would not address american security concerns. a few moments ago, cnn's arwa damon joined me and i asked how bad the violence was today. >> they are describing scenes that they themselves are saying is unimaginable. it's utterly hair raising. they say no one has been spared the violence, especially in the flash point city of homs, that has emerged as the epicenter of clashes.
one of them was talking about how difficult it was for him to see this 4-year-old girl that he said had been wounded. another 6-year-old girl that also had an injury to her eye. yet another child that had his entire jaw blown off. the agony the parents are going through. some of whom are wounded, others in utter pain because they're unable to protect their children. and then of course, there are the countless, countless deaths. activists are saying that the bombardment by the syrian government has been merciless at this stage. >> and you talk about homs as the epicenter of the violence, but has it spread? in your judgment, at this point, is this a full fledged civil war? is it a national or is it still in certain areas? >> it's very close to being a full-fledged civil war. homs, it's the epicenter of the violence.
the city where the free syrian army has managed to relatively speaking grow in numbers. you see a lot of clashes happening up against the border with turkey and there has been in the last week, a lot of clashes taking place in the damascus suburbs because around a week ago, these areas, too, were no longer in government control. in fact, some of the clashes taking place just a 10, 15 minute drive away from the heart of the capital. so it seems, especially in the last few days, the government has really been trying to go into these areas where the free syrian army is managing to operate to a certain degree to try to crush it once and for all. >> why did the u.s. decide to evacuate its embassy now? obviously, there's been a rocky relationship between the embassy and the government for a while and our ambassador had to leave because of rocks and security concerns a few months ago.
so, why was it so bad this time they had to completely leave? >> the u.s. embassy's location in damascus, it's fairly exposed. it's very vulnerable. there is no real solid security around it, so the americans have asked the syrian government to beef up security around its embassy. that did not take place so finally, the u.s. saying that because of security, it felt the need to have to shut down its operations at the stage. >> thank you very much. arwa damon from beirut tonight. our next guest spent a lot of time with bashar al assad and a lot of time in syria. he's the author of "lion's den." good to see you, sir. really appreciate it. i guess andrew, if i may, i want to start off with a comment you made. that you see real similarities between syria and what we saw in bosnia in the 1990s.
what exactly do you mean? >> we have areas of syria breaking outside of government control. now, the state is reasserting its control there in a game of whack-a-mole. where it hits the protestors of the armed opposition very hard, but the army can't be everywhere at the same time. so then it has to withdraw and then the armed opposition comes up somewhere else. this is wearing down assad's forces and is slowly putting the syrian conflict out of control and into the bloody insurgency we all feared would take place with lack of international action. >> so, when you use the words, a blood bath, what is at risk of happening in syria? >> the regime calls it the security solution. and with russian help, try and impose small changes in the country to reform and to save the regime. so then of course, the syrian
people aren't having any of it. they continue to remain in the streets for 11 months. this is going to drive up death tolls. you can have areas of the country falling outside of government control and the regime desperately trying to reassert its control. >> how is this different from libya? you know, obviously, the president has said this is different and seemed to say at least at this point, we're not going to militarily intervene in syria the way the u.s. did in libya. will the u.s. go into syria? >> if these areas of syria are out of government control and they're quote unquote liberated and the regime still continues to crack down, that could drive up death tolls where neighboring countries intervene. in bosnia, we had the idea of the safe havens. it's into this humanitarian framework that the united states could participate, so it would be different than libya. you had partings of the country breaking away, missile strikes, civil war. in this particular case, i think any kind of intervention would
be humanitarian and much needed. >> thank you very much. we appreciate you taking the time and everyone please tweet me if you have a point of view if you think the u.s. should intervene in syria. for humanitarian reasons or otherwise. "outfront" next, the president defends his super pac and the husband of a missing woman blows himself up and his two sons. it is a horrific story. his sister-in-law says it could have been prevented. she's next. supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us.
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so super pacs in election have raised a stunning $78 million so far. at the top of the charts so far, pro romney super pac with $30 million dollars raised. the super pac for president obama has raised $4.4 million. this is really chump change compared to what they're going to be raising over the next few months. the president weighed in today on the large amount of money that's been raised for the super pacs. >> if you ask me would i love to take some of the big money out of politics? i would. unfortunately, right now, partly because of supreme court rulings and a bunch of decisions out there, it is very hard to be able to get your message out without having some resources. >> meanwhile, a new abc "washington post" poll showed that while the country is split on whether president obama should get a second term, voters
believe if the general election were to be held today, the president would beat mitt romney and he would definitely beat newt gingrich. "outfront" now political reporter ken vogel and jamal simons, also, doug high. great to have you with us. interesting news when you look at this, ken, about super pacs, right? i guess he's basically saying i don't like them, but since i can't change the rule, i might as well play. >> he's trying to have it both ways here. this is a president who going back to his earliest days in politics has made getting rid of the interests of the influence of big money in politics sort of a central part of his political identity. in 2008, he and senator mccain combined to discourage outside spending in their race. in 2010, he complained about it bitterly when karl rove raised a lot of money for these outside groups. after their rode these outside
groups to beat democrats badly, they backed away from their opposition and now you see them actively trying to raise the same, exact kind of money. >> i guess there's an irony to it. it wasn't long ago that mitt romney was having that same conversation. oh, i hate those super pacs, i believe on "morning joe." so now they're in the same position. jamal, what do you make of how the polls go, that the public is split on a second term, but for the first time in a while, because the polls have been in a dead heat, would now choose the president. >> this is what happens when you are an incumbent without a challenger in a primary. you have the ability to go out and communicate every day, talking directly to voters, people in the middle of the electorate electorate, make sure they know what you think. while you have mitt romney who is battling newt gingrich to capture the hearts and minds of the conservatives, the more right leaning people in the party. so it makes sense that over time, the independents will
begin to like a president more because he's been talking to the independents, mitt romney and newt gingrich have been talking to more conservative voters. but keep in mind, this is a poll of registered voters, not likely voters and those of us who do this stuff for a living tend to pay more attention to likely voter polls than registered voter polls. either way, it's a good directional shift for the president. >> doug, what do you make of this? some said having a nasty primary might be good for romney. he'll get better at the debates and things and that will help him and maybe that's been the case, but certainly, he's had to appeal to narrow groups as david frum was talking about earlier in the show as opposed to trying to put out policy. that appeal to the large portion of independents. >> good in the long-term, but bad in the short-term. the abc poll is a national poll and where republicans take heart is drilling down in the states. if you look at swing states like florida, nevada, ohio, these are
states where economic confidence and the direction our country is going is in the bottom ten. my home state of north carolina which barack obama barely won, unemployment's at 10%. voters are unhappy. it's another state we can pick off and in iowa when barack obama was president, the democrats in iowa had registration of 110,000. as of the iowa caucus, that's down to 4,500. that's where we hope to see big success. >> how much money ken are we going to the -- to have when all is said and done? >> upwards of $10 billion spent on this election. i don't think that's an exaggeration. when you factor in how these super pacs and other outside groups are going to spend, not just in the presidential, but also the congressional races. then you add in the parties and the candidates themselves we're going to see quite a bit of spending, record-shattering, no doubt. >> you put a good graphic up that had the $4 million the
president raised versus the 30 million for mitt romney's. there's that other pack out there that's karl rove's. the republicans are doing a lot better than the president and the democratic side is. although the president is doing very well for raising money for the democratic party and for himself. i think there's going -- that disparity is probably going to keep things about even. while running a presidential campaign, there's so much free media. your message counts and who your candidate is counts so much that i think that will even things out for both sides. >> tonight, we have some terrible details in the case of josh powell. he was the man who police say killed hymn and his two young sons when he blew up his home late yesterday in washington state. you're looking at the pictures there. police say the explosion was very carefully planned. >> we've discovered multiple e-mails that he sent to his pastor. he sent to his cousins and to
other people that are longer in length. they dictate what to do with his utilities, what to do with his money. >> powell's wife was last seen two years ago in utah. he and his sons went on a camping trip. now, josh powell had long been a suspect in his wife's disappearance. powell had lost custody of his son, braden who fs 5 and charlie who was 7. and last week, a judge rejected his petition to have his children returned to his care. susan cox powell's sister denise cox is out front tonight. thank you for being with us in what obviously is a terrible time for you. and i'm, you know, no words. i'm so sorry to hear about those boys. you, though, said that you thought -- you saw this coming. you saw signs that josh might do something. what did you see? >> the way the kids were acting, how they were being closer to us
and shutting down on him and the way they were opening up to my family on what happened with their mom and statements they were saying and the way he was losing control, he had to get it back somehow. >> i think i'm -- correct me if i'm wrong, but the boys when this happened were 2 and 5. and now they're starting to remember certain things that might have happened that night that they were -- he didn't want them to talk about? >> yeah. i think he -- i believe he felt they forgot what happened or they were too tired. he underestimated his children, which are very bright children. and when they started getting comfortable with our family, he got scared and figured he had nothing left to do. >> had they -- >> other than take them. >> had they said anything to you, denise, or anyone else in
your family about what they saw that night? >> the boys never -- when i got a chance to see them, they didn't talk about their dad to me. he wasn't ever brought up in my conversations with them. it was more his mother because i grew up with her and they wanted to know -- wanted me to tell stories about how she was and what she liked to do and her interests. just what kind of person their mother was, because they were not allowed to talk about their mother or mention her name around their dad. >> what did your sister tell you about her relationship with josh? and i know you believe that he is guilty of killing her, right? >> oh, absolutely. she was wanting to leave him but she figured if she stuck it out and went to counseling they
would fix things. and as much as i told her it can't be fixed, it's past that point and you need to move on, i offered to pick her up and come get her and just grab the boys, i'll come get you. when things were getting really bad, she just said no, shen't wanted to work it out. and she was -- it was hard to talk to her about much of anything, though, because josh was always around and i had to try to call her when he wasn't around. >> thank for coming "outfront." and i'm so sorry for such a horrible tragic ending for those boys. all right, next, we're going to be talking about clint eastwood and american manufacturing. they've been committed to putting clients first.
>> this country can't be knocked out with one punch. we get right back up again and when we do, the world is going to hear the roar of our engines. yeah, it's halftime, america. and our second half is about to begin. >> this is about detroit, which aired last night in last night's super bowl and got a lot of people talking about a comeback in american manufacturing. and for super bowl viewers only in michigan, there was this controversial ad by pete hokstra.
>> your economy get very weak. ours get very good. we get your jobs. >> now, hoekstra is in hot water for faking that woman's accent. but the ad along with the clint eastwood commercial got us think, what kind of jobs do we want in america? our stan grant talked to workers with a fox con contractor in china where they make ipads. now, this woman had never seen a finished ipad. >> like it. >> you like it? >> she makes less than $1 an hour, assembling that ipad. and a tough question for america is, do we want those kinds of jobs back? steve jobs famously told the president last year before he died that, quote, american manufacturing jobs are not coming back. in the case of apple, we looked into the numbers. there are 246 retail apple stores in america. they employ about 30,000 people.
dubbed by apple as geniuses. while that pales in comparison to the fox com employees who make products for apple and microsoft, the jobs pay, well, a lot more. and we thought it was time to throw some not well known facts on the table in this depate. one, we do make things in america, a lot of things. according to the u.s. federal reserve, 89% of american consumer spending is on items made right here in the united states of america. a lot of that is on services, food and things like that. but we make cars and washing machine here's. just ask ge. imports in china account for -- this is amazing -- only 2.5% of u.s. gdp. and two, we aren't going to be able to make the things china makes more cheaply. 45% of the clothes we buy are made in china. if they didn't do it, another poorer country would. we want wages to grow in